1 Corinthians 15:29, et al.

[Shadowbelle]

Can someone please give me an authortative source about this verse and chapter.  Some people I am in a discussion with are saying that Paul is advocating prayers for the dead. Of course, we know this isn't true, but I would like some good, reputable source material refuting this idea.

[BaptistBibleBeliever]

In chapter 15, Paul is arguing for the Resurrection of Christ. He then uses those that deny the resurrection as an example. If they don't believe in it, why are they getting baptized for the dead? I just finished memorizing that chapter (though I think I forget about as soon as I do).

[Lee]

Here is Matthew Henry's commentary:

 

III. He argues for the resurrection, from the case of those who were baptized for the dead (1Co 15:29): What shall those do who are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? Why are they baptized for the dead? What shall they do if the dead rise not? What have they done? How vain a thing hath their baptism been! Must they stand by it, or renounce it? why are they baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not? hyper ton nekron. But what is this baptism for the dead? It is necessary to be known, that the apostle's argument may be understood; whether it be only argumentum ad hominem, or ad rem; that is, whether it conclude for the thing in dispute universally, or only against the particular persons who were baptized for the dead. But who shall interpret this very obscure passage, which, though it consists of no more than three words, besides the articles, has had more than three times three senses put on it by interpreters? It is not agreed what is meant by baptism, whether it is to be taken in a proper or figurative sense, and, if in a proper sense, whether it is to be understood or Christian baptism properly so called, or some other ablution. And as little is it agreed who are the dead, or in what sense the preposition hyper is to be taken. Some understand the dead of our Saviour himself; vide Whitby in loc. Why are persons baptized in the name of a dead Saviour, a Saviour who remains among the dead, if the dead rise not? But it is, I believe, and instance perfectly singular for hoi nekroi to mean no more than one dead person; it is a signification which the words have nowhere else. And the hoi baptizomenoi (the baptized) seem plainly to mean some particular persons, not Christians in general, which yet must be the signification if the hoi nekroi (the dead) be understood of our Saviour. Some understand the passage of the martyrs: Why do they suffer martyrdom for their religion? This is sometimes called the baptism of blood by ancients, and, by our Saviour himself, baptism indefinitely, Mt 20:22; Lu 12:50. But in what sense can those who die martyrs for their religion be said to be baptized (that is, die martyrs) for the dead? Some understand it of a custom that was observed, as some of the ancients tell us, among many who professed the Christian name in the first ages, of baptizing some in the name and stead of catechumens dying without baptism. But this savoured of such superstition that, if the custom had prevailed in the church so soon, the apostle would hardly have mentioned it without signifying a dislike of it. Some understand it of baptizing over the dead, which was a custom, they tell us, that early obtained; and this to testify their hope of the resurrection. This sense is pertinent to the apostle's argument, but it appears not that any such practice was in use in the apostle's time. Others understand it of those who have been baptized for the sake, or on occasion, of the martyrs, that is, the constancy with which they died for their religion. Some were doubtless converted to Christianity by observing this: and it would have been a vain thing for persons to have become Christians upon this motive, if the martyrs, by losing their lives for religion, became utterly extinct, and were to live no more. But the church at Corinth had not, in all probability, suffered much persecution at this time, or seem many instances of martyrdom among them, nor had many converts been made by the constancy and firmness which the martyrs discovered. Not to observe that hoi nekroi seems to be too general an expression to mean only the martyred dead. It is as easy an explication of the phrase as any I have met with, and as pertinent to the argument, to suppose the hoi nekroi to mean some among the Corinthians, who had been taken off by the hand of God. We read that many were sickly among them, and many slept (1Co 11:30), because of their disorderly behaviour at the Lord's table. These executions might terrify some into Christianity; as the miraculous earthquake did the jailer, Ac 16:29-30, &c. Persons baptized on such an occasion might be properly said to be baptized for the dead, that is, on their account. And the hoi baptizomenoi (the baptized) and the hoi nekroi (the dead) answer to one another; and upon this supposition the Corinthians could not mistake the apostle's meaning. "Now," says he, "what shall they do, and why were they baptized, if the dead rise not? You have a general persuasion that these men have done right, and acted wisely, and as they ought, on this occasion; but why, if the dead rise not, seeing they may perhaps hasten their death, by provoking a jealous God, and have no hopes beyond it?" But whether this be the meaning, or whatever else be, doubtless the apostle's argument was good and intelligible to the Corinthians. And his next is as plain to us.

Matthew Henry gives the various views and then gives his view. But BBB is correct and you should be able to quote him as an authority.  

Paul argues that death was given its power by God, which is obvious because God is omnipotent, meaning that all power comes from God. Therefore if God gave death this power over life, then He can easily take back that power. So the question becomes "If there is no resurrection of the dead, what advantage is there to dying in Christ?" Dead is dead, if we all die and that is it for us, then what hope do we have. But in fact we are baptized into the death of Christ so that we can also rise from the dead with Him. That is also why in verse 31 Paul says "I die daily", when we are baptized into the death of Christ what we are really doing is dying out to the world. We are submitting our Will and accepting the Will of God for our lives. Water baptism illustrates this spiritual baptism, we are immersed in death and we rise to new life in Christ.

[Shadowbelle]

Thanks Lee.  I did use BB's statement, but to no avail.  This person I think wants to think that Paul advocated praying for the dead.  I posted BB's comments and my own, and the subject has now gone into archives.  I wish I could read the above commentary better...the type is so small my old eyes are having a hard time...guess I need to increase the magnification feature, but I can use Henry as a source for this poster to use, but it will probably be to no avail.  Thanks again.

[jerry]

Perhaps you could adjust the font size or magnify the page by using the View tab at the top of your browser. I just tried it, and it seems to help if all you need is a larger text.

[BaptistBibleBeliever]

Another trick is to copy the text into a word processor and just change the font size to 14 or 16 after selecting all of the paragraphs.

[Shadowbelle]

Thanks guys.  My magnifier is on the bottom right and I do use it, but in this case I don't think it will work with cut and paste to post on another forum to be read without difficulty.  Anyway as I said, the subject is basically dead...it's in archives.

[BaptistBibleBeliever]

The important thing is that you are prepared for the next time the issue comes up.

When I was first saved, like everyone, I had a ton of questions and as I shared my faith with others - they would come up with questions that forced me to go find an answer. All of this ends up precept upon precept, and each precept that becomes understood becomes a single brick which we add to our wall of faith and knowledge. We don't know quite when it happens but one day we look and see that our wall has been built up high, strong and quite secure - and we are thoroughly furnished. Look at each learning experience as another opportunity for your sword to be held to the wheel - the friction caused by the uncomfort of not having the answer is eventually honed into the confidence of the soldier of the Lord, armoured and alert.

And just because we have been a believer for thirty years does not mean that we have stopped growing and learning - and how about all the answers that God has basically reserved for that time when we no longer see through a glass darkly. I wonder what it will be like to know everything? Will we miss the old days when spiritual truths were still hunted for like diamonds? and there was the joy of discovery as some deep biblical secret becomes clear.

Or will we just be too busy to think about it.  Probably.

[PastorJohn]

The important thing is that you are prepared for the next time the issue comes up.

And just because we have been a believer for thirty years does not mean that we have stopped growing and learning. . .

Amen brother. Sadly many believers never grow in faith and knowledge. I know many people who have been saved for thirty years, but they have only one year of growth repeated thirty times.

1 Peter 3:15, "But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear."

[Lee]

Hows that? I need at least a twelve point font in order to be able to read comfortably online.